Chivalry and Feminism

[Kazami]

I found this online. It's called "the Code of Chivalry":

"I. To live one's life so that it is worthy of respect and honor by all.
1.Fair Play
Never attack an unarmed foe.
Never charge an unhorsed opponent.
Never attack from behind
Avoid cheating
Avoid torture

2.Nobility
Exhibit self-discipline
Show respect to authority
Obey the law
Administer justice
Administer mercy
Protect the innocent
Respect women

3.Valor
Exhibit courage in word and deed
Avenge the wronged
Defend the weak and innocent
Fight with honor
Never abandon a friend, ally, or noble cause

4.Honor
Always keep one's word of honor
Always maintain one's principles
Never betray a confidence or comrade
Avoid deception
Respect life

5.Courtesy
Exhibit manners
Be polite and attentive
Respectful of host, authority, honor, and women

6.Loyalty
To God, Sovereign, Country, and the codes of Chivalry
Always respect and obey the law unless the law is wrongful
Always be kind and never cruel
Give mercy to those that ask for it
Always be truthful and never lie
Defend the Law of Good, and seek to stop injustice
Have compassion to the weak, frail, and oppressed, and seek to help them in any way
Be charitable to others and give to those in need
Always succor women when they are in distress
Love your country, family, religion, and uphold them in any way
Always put the needs of others above the needs of yourself
Live a pure and noble life."


I think that the family is the core of society, and chivalry is the core of the famliy. But modern feminism is now about teaching women, and men as well, that men are neither needed or wanted. I think feminism in that manner is getting way out of hand. There's plenty of single parent families, which is hard on the mom and the kids, because men are no longer taught the responsiblity that is their due. It's like ppl don't have their dignity any more...

So called "roles" in the family are getting turned around to where the woman is the worker, and the man stays at home. While I'm not 100% aginst this idea, I think that it isn't a woman's responsibility to perform that kind of role. Why? If anyone hasn't figured it out yet, men and women are different, and they are built to perform diffrent tasks that the other COULD do, but wouldn't necissarily be suited for. Of course the majority of women are capable of everything their husbands are, but does it mean that they should? Of course not. It just wouldn't be as productive. Sure, you can drive a nail in a wall with a wrench, but does that mean that it should be used like that?

What're everyone else's oppinions on this? Are any of you feminists that are aginst men being merciful to women just because they are women? Or are you gentlemen/ladies that are more accepting of this?

[~{=Draek Shadowblade=}~]

Hmm...I think both sides are wrong entirely. Men and Women should be treated as compleete equals. Neither should stay at home, and neither should do all of the work. Both should step up and take responsibility. If they are going to buckle down and have a family, then both need to take responsibility. Sometimes that means that the women in the family need to get a job, sometimes the man needs to get a job. Hell, in some cases, BOTH need to get a job. Either way. They are equals in every way. Neither should do all of the work. Men need to learn to respect them, and stop trying to dominate them or take all of the jobs from them, yet, at the same time, the men do need to remember thier responsibilities. Yes, I am a guy, yet I speak like this. That is because I am honest. And I dont exactly just up and go with the flow. (thank god, or I would act like the other ass holes in fairview...,) But still. Those are my belifes.

[Brandy's Back!!!]

I completely agree with Shayde. Men and Women have and always been equals but alotof times people seem to fail to reaize this. And Family or not both parties should be abel to get a job whethere it is made for man or women. I dont go nor like the stereotyplical and "back then" role that women being barefoot and pregnant in the house, doing all the house work, etc.

We are and always will be equal, thats how god made us and wants us to be.

[Kazami]

Shayde said:

Hmm...I think both sides are wrong entirely. Men and Women should be treated as compleete equals. Neither should stay at home, and neither should do all of the work. Both should step up and take responsibility. If they are going to buckle down and have a family, then both need to take responsibility. Sometimes that means that the women in the family need to get a job, sometimes the man needs to get a job. Hell, in some cases, BOTH need to get a job. Either way. They are equals in every way. Neither should do all of the work. Men need to learn to respect them, and stop trying to dominate them or take all of the jobs from them, yet, at the same time, the men do need to remember thier responsibilities. Yes, I am a guy, yet I speak like this. That is because I am honest. And I dont exactly just up and go with the flow. (thank god, or I would act like the other ass holes in fairview...,) But still. Those are my belifes.

Very interesting belief. I don't belive that men should dominate over women at all either. But it's not like men are taking jobs from women. I wasn't saying that one side should do all the work. I was saying that men(on average) are far better at working and providing for his family while women(on average) on the other hand, is better at staying home and raising children(children DO come from them, after all).

I don't know why ppl insist on defying nature like that, but it's even in other animals. Nature built lots of other creatures to act the same way. It's like giving half one function, and the other half another, to cover what the other can't do.

I belive that men and women should be equal to, but that doesn't mean that they have to perform the same jobs in society. They should work togeather yes, but not doing things that the other can do(again, on average) 10x better. It might seem like an insult to some, but it's not. Not at all.

[~{=Draek Shadowblade=}~]

I agree with pika. I never treat men and women differently. Right down to the opening the door thing. I dont actively seek to "open the door for the lady" but at the same time I NEVER let the door shut in ANYONES face. I always hold open the door when ppl are about to go through it behind me anyway. That is just one example. I dont see why to treat them different. Most of the time, if a girl is weaker than the guys, its cause she let herself get that way. If a girl wanted to be just as strong, she would simply not allow herself to be pampered. Simple as that. One of my friends is a girl that, belive it or not, attitude wise, does not fit in as a girl usually. thats cause she is a, and she says this herself, a tough bitch. She says that herself. (she dont say tough forsay, but I think she should.) She can work just as well as any guy could. If you asked her, she would say she was a bitch. However, she, in my opinion, is not that way all the time, but can be when she wants to. (she can be that way with her jokes, or when you piss her off, bassically.)

[Kazami]

Shayde said:

I agree with pika. I never treat men and women differently. Right down to the opening the door thing. I dont actively seek to "open the door for the lady" but at the same time I NEVER let the door shut in ANYONES face. I always hold open the door when ppl are about to go through it behind me anyway. That is just one example. I dont see why to treat them different. Most of the time, if a girl is weaker than the guys, its cause she let herself get that way. If a girl wanted to be just as strong, she would simply not allow herself to be pampered. Simple as that. One of my friends is a girl that, belive it or not, attitude wise, does not fit in as a girl usually. thats cause she is a, and she says this herself, a tough bitch. She says that herself. (she dont say tough forsay, but I think she should.) She can work just as well as any guy could. If you asked her, she would say she was a bitch. However, she, in my opinion, is not that way all the time, but can be when she wants to. (she can be that way with her jokes, or when you piss her off, bassically.)

But Shayde, if you haven't noticed, men and women are different. I don't know where you got the fact that women can be as phisically strong as a guy. Maybe some cases, but if ANY girl got raised the same way as a guy, she WILL be physically weakerI was pampered way more than any girl I know, yet I'm still physically stronger than they are. On the other hand, most likely, the girl will be smarter than the guy to. That's just how things are. Of course you would know a girl that acts like a guy "should", but that shouldn't matter.

What I'm saying is, they ARE different. It's better for a man to go out and work, it's better for women to stay at home, a hammer should be used to drive nails in, and Pika, I don't think it's be wise for a woman to go out and work when she's preggers. The man CAN'T, so the woman should, NOT HAVE TO, but should, take responsibility, as should the men for their jobs. Why should men do things like open doors for women? Why not? It's not like a woman would be insulted by it(or at least, shouldn't)

[Deragon]

Dude KAzami that was the most sexist sounding thing ever there is only 1 girl i treat differen then any man and that is my GF because i consider her better then any guy and all other girls are equal to any guy.

[Kazami]

Sexist? What's wrong with treating females like they're different? They are! It's not a bad thing to treat women differently. I don't know why ppl think it'd be mean or anything. Men shouldn't treat women mean by any way, but women do need different attention than men do. No man shouldn't feel sorry for them, because they're by no means a lower life-form. Women shouldn't feel ashamed of themselves, because there's nothing wrong w/being treated differently. I don't know why you ppl think it's such a bad thing either. We are all humans, now.

[Deragon]

not all girls need to be treated different i know most girls that hate it because they are just as good as us i know several that are stronger then me even.

[Kazami]

Deragon said:

not all girls need to be treated different i know most girls that hate it because they are just as good as us i know several that are stronger then me even.

Of course they should be treated how they want to. No doubt. But they shouldn't be mean when someone opens a door for them(it happened to me once). Some get insulted by it even. I'm just saying that men and women should cooperate more, even if they're different AND should except that they are different.

[Lost Digi Girl]

People are whatever they see themselves as, and what others see them as, which affects how they see themselves. In general, I see people as people, and normal differences are just there to be able to identify one person from another. I'm willing to hold the door for anyone(but after about 7 people, I give up on waiting for people that are still about 10 feet away). Maybe being truely fair is taking the respectful ways people are supposed to treat females, and apply that to males also. They're human.

However, this generic system of treating others isn't the only way to see things. I am a girl, and a tombeish one at that. I am a goody two shoes, and in some aspects, maybe traditional. I might not mind being the one at home, since I could work on my stories. And kids are fun, although I still want to be a teacher. Which, in one aspect, might be the traditional female job. Try to make me someone I'm not and I'll protest. Ask Pika. Just treat all people fairly, and when you know them better, the way they specificly want to be.

[~{=Draek Shadowblade=}~]

Unfortunatly, kazami, I must take deragons side. That is very sexist. They are not different. They are only as different as they make themselves. Belive me. I know plenty of women that are as strong or stronger than any other guy. Sex has nothing to do with it, kazami. People are what they make themselves. I am not physically strong, but, I am fast. I am also smart. More so than most guys or, I daresay, most girls. The difference lies only in that the testosterone in males tends to make them stupider more often, but that dont mean you cant come by people like me that are smart, instead of tough. Bassically, the system dont work that way. You cant design a system on most. You must design a system on the all. And you will screw over the women that are strong if you have a system like that. Yeah, some are as you say. But, some are not. I dont belive in the stereotypes. I think they are all wrong. Women are just as strong as men. Just as smart, too. Usually, anyway. Women just dont SEEM as tough for one reason, and one reason only. Guys demonstrate that strength more often, because a guy is more likely than a girl to jump into fights. That is the testosterone. Nonetheless, they are just as strong.

[Kazami]

Okay Shayde, how did you, or anyone for that matter, come to the conclusion that women are just as strong? I'm assuming you mean physically though. They're not. It's nothing to be ashamed of. There are differences in both genders. Some differences don't necissarily define each gender, but the differences are there. It shouldn't be insulting to except these differences. You can't go around saying that a circle is exactly the same shape as a square now, can you? These differences shouldn't decide a person's lifestyle, no, and they cirtainly don't. Being different is NOT WRONG. Being different makes you an individual. It makes you who you are. And what's wrong with having just a little more respect for women anyway? Not to do it out of pity or anything, as you might think this is all about, but being a gentleman?

[Wedgamus]

I see what you mean, but i'm in the middle of you both. I agree with most of what Kazami says, that in some cases, traditionally, it is right. and like with shayde and D, there are many exceptions and shouldn't be generalzied to EVERY girl. Both points are very true. But Jenni's statement was the smartest of all.

My input, treat people how you want to be treated. If you're gonna be a gentleman, then be a gentleman. You wanna be a jerk, you have to accept that everyone's going to see you as one, and will therefore treat you badly.

[Kazami]

That is kinda what I ment though. It really wouldn't be right if that were the case for every girl. And yes, I agree that Jenni's was the smartest one...